What do you want from a skirmish games?

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What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby Morph » Monday 25th February, 2013 6:44 pm

We'll probably never agree on what game we want to play, but I was interested in some questions that might help narrow it down. So here's the first...

Would you prefer a game where:

You and your opponent pick forces for each game based on points values (or some other method) and there is no continuity between games (other than maybe some sort of narrative to the campaign), so each game is "balanced".

or

You pick a force at the start of the campaign and stick with this force which changes after each battle - possibly due to models gaining experience and/or having some sort of currency that lets you buy new models, equipment, etc.
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby IronWithin » Monday 25th February, 2013 7:18 pm

The second one :)
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby Talorian » Monday 25th February, 2013 10:37 pm

The first one, the problem with advances is that it benefits both the better players and those who play more often, leading to exclusion. We have seen this time and again when we have played these kinds of games.

I also find that progression leads to bendiness and that puts others off too. Look what happened with the Confrontation campaign we had!
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby Mattman » Monday 25th February, 2013 11:01 pm

I would say the first, but I think there is room for both if done correctly i.e. not random like Necro and different points/exp costs for different skills or stat increases, (but like Ian said any sort of progression leads to the better players/winners getting better gangs/warbands and those that lose just give up).
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby noodle » Tuesday 26th February, 2013 8:26 am

I have campaign hooks for both. If a select group want to go off and investigate the hadron expanse that would be ideal for the latter. Lots of campaign ideas for the former.
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby Comrade_Nikolai » Tuesday 26th February, 2013 12:14 pm

The first. Too much bentness with improving your force. ref. Dogs of war campaign for confrontation.

Also, its really shit when one of your models dies...
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby Mattman » Tuesday 26th February, 2013 12:33 pm

Comrade_Nikolai wrote:Also, its really shit when one of your models dies...


Indeed. A model dying can kill off any incentive to carry on playing. How many times have we seen people give up on their bloodbowl teams or necro gangs because someone gets killed off and rarely do the underdog bonuses do much to give you a chance at winning over the next few games.
It also cost me a first place at the first nationals I played necromunda in, as normal gang progression was used and finishing places was done on gang rating. I was at the top going into the last round but in the last game one of my guys was killed, so I dropped 250+ pts and that put me into 3rd. That was why I introduced structured progression in necromunda when we ran it.

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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby BlackCat » Tuesday 26th February, 2013 1:51 pm

It depends on the setting.

Opition 1. is more practical for a large number of players in a society setting. Therefore at the society (where everyone's commitment varies), this is the only really viable (EDIT: viables the wrong word...maybe I mean 'fair'?) option*.

Option 2. is only really practical for a small number of players all meeting regularly to play a specified number of games. I personally find these types of games really fun (Mordheim especially), but I think they work best with a handful of players, all capping the number of games they play each session. I guess these types of campaign also need a pre defined end point.


*even if you placed a player/game limit, if a player missed a week at the society their warband (or whatever) would still get behind. Unless the campaign only lasted one day (i.e. like the Kill team rules I posted ;) )
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby Morph » Tuesday 26th February, 2013 5:40 pm

Some good points, and I kind of expected leanings towards the balanced approach. I remember last time we played Mordheim I basically stopped as soon as my gang leader died, and the previous Mordheim campaign ended because Dave Bone played lots of games and broke it.

But at the same time the sense of progression does help keep people playing. I always wonder if the reason the lighter games don't gain traction is because they fell less of an "event" than a battle of 40k or Warhammer, and that something is needed to compensate for that. Having a force get bigger and better over time would be one way.

I am wondering if some sort of hybrid could be done. You start with a set force but it levels up (more models, better equipment, models gaining skills etc.) every week at the same rate as everyone else. So you maintain the balance but also get some progression.
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby thepaintingmonkey » Tuesday 26th February, 2013 8:05 pm

I really enjoyed the system we had for painting new warhammer armies at the start of last year. That's not to say that it was a perfect system for playing a small campaign, but it did lead to some enjoyable little games. Obviously there were problems as we were simply painting a certain number of points, which meant that if someone just painted their core troops first they had an entire shooting army... :?

I'm in agreement with most of the above. I stopped playing necromunda when I lost my leader and heavy in one quick duel game, making the gang predictably awful. I think that if an enthusiastic campaign manager gets the tone right (right being what the majority of players want) a narrative can be sufficient link to tie one off games together.

Any excuse to only paint a handful of models and play quicker, more lighthearted games is good.
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby Llamahead » Sunday 3rd March, 2013 11:25 pm

Can I be awkward and say a bit of both? I'd rather have variety to much of one thing can lead to it becoming stale. The linked campaigns can be a lot of fun and I'd like to play more of them but one of games without organisation can be a lot of fun.
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby Shaidar Haran » Tuesday 5th March, 2013 1:50 pm

Well, 40k games we play are all mostly one off games. But because we have the campaign to "progress" in. Perhaps for the smaller games we just need a bit of a setting or campaign to be working in to keep interest going?
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Re: What do you want from a skirmish games?

Postby Tommen » Thursday 14th March, 2013 6:15 pm

thepaintingmonkey wrote:Any excuse to only paint a handful of models and play quicker, more lighthearted games is good.

How does Mordheim play? Id like a reason to paint up a tiny band of merry men/boyz and spend a couple of hours converting and naming each one.
Plus the swords and pokey sticks will be a refreshing change from the other games that are just guns, guns and then some guns with a side-order of guns. :D
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