New Guard codex

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New Guard codex

Postby noodle » Saturday 12th April, 2014 1:07 pm

Whine excessively below... :)

Overall I am pleased, because my preferred guard builds are now cheaper. The Punisher is 40 points cheaper for a start, and the executioner (OK so now it gets hot) is also substantially cheaper.

I like the tank commander HQ and the tank orders, and its a good excuse to field the less popular Russ. Commissars as 25pt attachments are cool too, and the orders in general have been brought into line with the new rules... Flak missiles are "ok", at 10pts a bit much for a one shot str 7 missile with skyfire. Hellhounds are 5pts off too.

I think I can make a viable tank themed, veteran themed and infantry themed units. I do like the special orders, especially the shoot then run and the "ignores cover" order.

Bullgrins look good, and the fact that ratlings can fire then run off is both characterful and good.

On the "down" side, the chimera has gone up 10pts and is slightly worse. Manticore is more expensive but the (no shock) big increase is the 40pt hike on the vendetta! The hydra has also got WORSE, losing its anti-jink rule for... nothing in return.

Chenkov and Alraheim have gone, and so have the special artillery pieces (Colossus etc). You'll need to ally to an IA armoured company to get that back in. In addition I cant see anything "broken" in the codex, which is disappointing ;)

And finally, the Taurox is ugly. I refuse to play opposite that pig of a model :(
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby noodle » Saturday 12th April, 2014 2:48 pm

Also, I need three eradicator turrets and 5 more punisher turrets... :|
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby Namhaft » Sunday 13th April, 2014 8:17 am

The medusa and colossus are both in the newest IA book. They can be taken as a heavy support for normal guard. No need to ally to an armoured company.
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby noodle » Sunday 13th April, 2014 10:08 am

oh yeah, good point...

Looks like GW will make rules for models they produce and leave FW to the rules for FW models...

Though why GW even bothered to make that pig tank is beyond me...
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby The Kremlin » Sunday 13th April, 2014 8:02 pm

Just please don't get any Wyverns :-p
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby noodle » Sunday 13th April, 2014 9:47 pm

Um. Too late.
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby Sam » Monday 14th April, 2014 9:56 am

noodle wrote:Though why GW even bothered to make that pig tank is beyond me...


I thought the same, but having now seen one up close (fully built and nicely painted) it's not as hideous as the photos made it seem. Plus, with decent wheels instead of the funny little tracks (which still remind me of a Jawa sandcrawler http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sandcrawler) I think this could be a pretty nice model after all.

Though I don't think looks big enough to fit ten guys in it, even if one drives and another mans the guns. Perhaps the worst aspect of this new unit/model is its fluff background... Some hogwash about it operating in a vacuum and being able to drive up a sheer surface (excuse me, what??) :?
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby The Kremlin » Monday 14th April, 2014 10:41 am

I've seen conversions with wheels doing the rounds already, they look pretty good actually.
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby Sam » Monday 14th April, 2014 10:42 am

The Kremlin wrote:Just please don't get any Wyverns :-p


A very good vehicle. Though I don't mind something having powerful weapons, when it comes sooo cheap I feel that this new beast conclusively out-competes the equivalent points in humble man-portable mortar teams where they perform the same function. Which I find sad :(
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby noodle » Monday 14th April, 2014 10:44 am

Man portable mortars can be ordered, which can be better...

Deathstrike also looks "fun"... For a big bang :D

I have a Wyvern, I may get 2 but I am more likely to have a mix of Wyverns, tanks and basilisks... Or 3 Deathstrikes. :shock:
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby Mattman » Monday 14th April, 2014 11:06 am

So how viable is a full tank army now?
If I ever did decide to jump back into 40k that is what I would want to play ;)
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby Sam » Monday 14th April, 2014 11:55 am

Mattman wrote:So how viable is a full tank army now?


Very easy to put together. No tanks in Troops, but you can have mechanised infantry. Then squadrons of 1-3 tanks in Heavy Support as per previous Codex, Hellhounds and variants still available in Fast Attack, then...

New HQ tanks; comes as a choice of 2-3 in the HQ squadron, one of whom is a Commander with increased BS over a normal Russ, and can give his own squadron some unique special orders.

So plenty for the tread-heads to play with! :D
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby Mattman » Monday 14th April, 2014 12:04 pm

Yeah, but I wouldn't want any flesh bags getting in the way, all cannons and treads
Tanks still can't capture objectives can they (apart from that one scenario)?
Shame the tank HQ doesn't make tanks a troop choice like they did a few versions ago :(
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby noodle » Monday 14th April, 2014 12:40 pm

Matt, if the HQ *did* make Russ Troops, the Russ lists would be ridiculous!

This is a treadheads edition in my view. It makes the variant tanks actually worth looking at and a Russ based "AV14 wall" viable.

Exectutioner gets hot but is cheap. Punisher is great at 40pts off. The revelation for me though would be seeing the Eradicator... Str 6 5" pie, AP4, no cover... 120pts... So its an AV14 slow Hellhound, with much better range, and 5 points cheaper


You still need fleshbags to take objectives but vets are 10pts cheaper... Carapace armour is now half price so actually worth it. Also given the orders etc I think infantry lists can be competetive, especially when backed up with lots of artillery.

A battery of Wyverns is nice and cheap, but AP6 "ignores cover" is hardly terrifying.
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby The Kremlin » Monday 14th April, 2014 1:02 pm

I look forward to seeing how it all works out on the table.

Does sound like the variant Russ are some of the winners of the book!

We'll see if the Imperium can make a campaign resurgence now :-p

(Wyverns - the issue is accuracy, barrage sniping, and the sheer quantity of wounds that four accurate S4 shred templates put out, for the cheap cost. Equally, the closest comparison - the half again as expensive Thunderfire Cannon - is far easier to hide. Will wait and see!)
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby noodle » Monday 14th April, 2014 1:20 pm

We shall! I have plenty of "theory lists". The Deathstrike seems like it could be a nightmare for some... str 10 AP1 10" blast... fires on T2 on a 3+... barrage... One Shot... surely a "concern" (and I could feasibly field 1-3)

Also I've worked out that two eradicators and two hellhounds is easily doable, with pts levft over for anti tank... So that would be 4x templates which are 2+ to kill tau/kroot with no cover saves...

The challenge here (a good one) will be finding a list which can be competetive against other lists which are designed for all comers... In campaign terms meta-ing against your opponent BEFORE YOU KNOW THEIR ARMY LIST has alwasy been "OK" - so long as both players agree its a "campaign meta-game game" (!)
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby The Kremlin » Monday 14th April, 2014 1:47 pm

Oh, indeed - my Apocalypse Riders are designed to have good general matchups against Tau and Eldar lists precisely because they are their most troublesome and most frequent campaign opponents. That's not so much metagaming on an individual game basis as recognising what my usual opposition is, and I do take the same lists vs orks, chaos, imperial mirror matches and so on.

Big difference between full-on tailoring, and planning a list that can do well versus your usual foes.

As an aside, I tend to feel that tau and eldar can often hide their troops in terrain and/or inside vehicles or off the board via reserves (see under Wave Serpents, Jetbike units, outflanking Kroot, etc etc). As such, while the eradicator looks very useful, it isn't sufficient to do the job on its own (the Wyvern is also pretty good vs the same targets, I suspect, if they aren't hidden under ruins or protected as above). I've tended to find the key to those games is to withstand their early firepower via mitigation of available targets, distraction units, and/or use of reserves until their firepower can be reduced by killing a few key units - broadsides, crisis command teams, wave serpents, fire prisms - allowing the game to be more competitive. (Wraithknights and Riptides sometimes need dealing with, but are usually a distraction not your primary preferred target).

As such, the Eradicator looks pretty good not just because of the enemy Troops, which should be answerable once the hard hitters are out of play - but because your opponent can't necessarily afford to ignore it and let it do its thing to troops later in the game / against the units they are unable to hide, so may have to target it rather than the units you have dedicated to killing the killy stuff.

I'm not au fait enough with the Guard/AM yet to know what you'd use for that job. I suspect Executioners, being cheaper, are pretty good at it - heavier artillery can also work vs some of those targets. A well-protected Command Squad - I might suggest taking a Bastion just to guarantee LoS-blocking cover for the now incredibly valuable and somewhat vulnerable command unit - putting Ignores Cover on various infantry-based heavy weapons also strikes me as an excellent way to mitigate Wave Serpents, and get kills off on Broadsides and the like once the Drones can be cleared by lighter firepower.

Basically I like the Eradicator just because it makes such a tempting target for your opponent, and at AV14 takes some attention to remove.
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby noodle » Monday 14th April, 2014 6:16 pm

...and its 120 points. I know Rick hates my hellhounds so they stay in reserve... usually this is good as they appear when the troops are "out" so to speak. The eradicator does the job well on board, because it could potentially sap firepower - this happened in my game vs. Rick when I had the Knight. While it was alive (all of two turns) the rest of my army was largely left unmolested... (then it was wiped out)

Command squads - in chimeras they can order so in chimeras they will often stay. I can see people employing void shield generators and fortifications, sitting deathstrikes behind them as well as other artillery... or a bastion with heavy weapons teams inside (orderable)... oh how defensive :s

Can we agree that you can't barrage from inside a building? is that a rule? It should be...
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby The Kremlin » Monday 14th April, 2014 6:37 pm

I'm actually not advocating an ultra-defensive style, necessarily.

It is perfectly possible to employ a command post/firebase around a fortification, and then to have more mobile attacking elements to push forward with - indeed I have been playing my Space Marines this way for a while.

The point of the Bastion isn't per se to put the command squad in it, but rather to provide a line of sight blocking bit of terrain, guaranteed, that you can deploy it *behind*. You then put something like a heavy weapon squad on the roof, and a platoon next to it, to use orders on - or the like, I'm not 100% au fait with guard.

You can then have a bit of artillery back there with the firebase, and put the rest of your points in mechinf squads, tanks and whatever other attacking and/or distraction forces you feel like.

So what I'm advocating is a combined-arms force with a home-objective/firepower team and a "go get them" team, each able to support the other.
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Re: New Guard codex

Postby noodle » Monday 14th April, 2014 7:59 pm

Thats what i thought you were advocating, i can just forsee some uber defensive guard lists...
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