commentary on codex: CSM

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Re: commentary on codex: CSM

Postby IronWithin » Tuesday 10th December, 2013 1:22 pm

noodle wrote:Chaos marines ought to be legion themed more strongly than they are, so on that I agree with mike. However I don't think the CSM codex is weak, rather the builds you want to see used are weak. Not much different to guard then, as I find myself in the same boat - with an army that could be very good if I took all the things I don't want to... However escalation and stronghold does actually mean I can bolster that.


Okay yes I will concede that to a degree, I don't want marines hiding behind rocks waiting for the air cover to come and save them. I want demi-god like monsters of old with things they've dragged from hell and baroque old equipment not seen since the days of the Horus Heresy.

[rant]And Goddammit! I want some barrage. Iron Warriors start their battles with a precision barrage, we can't even do that any more. I know I can take IG allies but sometimes I don't want mortal cattle along for the ride.[/rant]

Marines have suffered in this edition because of the amount of AP3 weapons out there like the Helldrake. Chaos particularly suffers due to its leadership problems. Thing is, without a fearless model or a cult unit, Chaos is quite cowardly, which is weird considering these guys live in hell. You mentioned the Obliterators before, they are one of the best units in the codex, but they aren't as good as before and that's because after losing one of them you're taking a leadership test on 8, previously they were fearless. I sincerly it was a lazy oversight (I really hope so), there's no way to boost the obliterators Ld other than sit a HQ choice with them which is prohibitively expensive. And the restriction of cannot fire the same fire twice in a row, while I like it for adding a tactical consideration to using them other than spamming plasma cannons I think the other things give them a horrible downside. And like everything else in the codex, they cannot be greater than the sum of their parts.
“From Iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron. This is the Unbreakable Litany. And may it forever be so."
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Re: commentary on codex: CSM

Postby Morph » Tuesday 10th December, 2013 3:33 pm

IronWithin wrote:Okay yes I will concede that to a degree, I don't want marines hiding behind rocks waiting for the air cover to come and save them. I want demi-god like monsters of old...


GW is in a horrible fluff tangle because of course every unit has to be awesome. Space marines are genetically enhanced super men, so they need to be great. And chaos marines have sold their souls to the dark gods so they need to be great. And Eldar aspect warriors have trained for thousands of years... And Necrons are immortal robots from days of old... And Tau have ridiculous advanced technology... on and on and on....

The result is that (rules wise) things stop seeming awesome because everything is awesome.
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Re: commentary on codex: CSM

Postby IronWithin » Wednesday 11th December, 2013 7:52 pm

I thinks its a tangle of their own or marketing and sales, every new release need to be bigger stronger faster and not play to their strengths.
Everyone is not awesome IMO fluffwise. They each have something they do better than anyone else, down to individual units, it's the creep in rules that have made marines a bit of a dinosaur. Eldar have always been fast, specialist and elite, Humans individually but sport large numbers and massive firepower, Orks resilient and come in large numbers, Space Marines, resilient and elite. I guess Tau fit into the massive firepower and elite status. I think Chaos in this is a bit confused as to what it's supposed to be doing, and that chaos armies are very different from each other, Iron Warriors have very little tactical similarities with Alpha Legion.
“From Iron cometh strength. From strength cometh will. From will cometh faith. From faith cometh honour. From honour cometh iron. This is the Unbreakable Litany. And may it forever be so."
http://theunbreakablelitany.blogspot.co.uk/
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