Aleph Sector Campaign system

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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby Comrade_Nikolai » Sunday 10th February, 2013 3:16 pm

Mattman wrote:6000pts is an accepted standard size game for epic, but in relation to 40k it represents dozens of games of 40k over the course of 1 game of epic. So in reality a game of epic should be worth many multiples of a game of 40k ;)

A 1500pt army in 40k equates to about 500-700pts in Epic so a 6k game of epic should in theory be worth 10 games of 40k ;)


Mattman wrote:
Comrade_Nikolai wrote:Yeah but by that logic if I win a gothic game I should get a planet...

Planets please.


A game of gothic might not have anything to do with a planet, plus it doesn't take into account fighting against any sort of defences the planet may have. Just having a fleet in orbit above a planet doesn't mean you have control, sure you can bombard it from orbit, but then you are basically destroying it.


I understand exactly where you're coming from, but you could make the same argument for epic. as showcased by Duncan's 6 hour Pyrric draw yesterday which almost certainly would have wiped out whatever infrastructure was being fought over.

We could also argue that a fleet in orbit is worth more than any number of armies on the ground if those armies are caught out and not able to hid within something important to the attacker like a city, further more, the loss of a fleet is probably a heavier blow to the enemy than the loss of an army, and even having a single cruiser reduced to crippled status could be argued as a more significant loss than crippling an epic army

finally, either of us could also suggest that a game of 40k is worth more than a game of Epic if it allows the capture of a valuable strategic asset. Ie. the kind of high value operations that space marines do, when the blunt hammer of the IG is an inappropriate tool, and obviously the power of an orbital bombardment is inappropriate.

a case could be made for why any of these games could be more important than any others, what I was suggesting is that they really all should count as yielding the same advantages to the winner, as that would be fairest on the players.

ps. I'm looking into an epic army, so I'm not really arguing about games of epic in general. not really sure what though, maybe I should try my hand at sculpting and casting them... really wanted some dropzone commander PHR, but I think they're probably too big...
"At 6 inches tall the Imperial Knight is a towering war engine."
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby Mattman » Sunday 10th February, 2013 3:51 pm

It is always going to be tricky to involve all the types of games and produce an accurate and fair value for what a victory is worth.

I always think it is quite strange that Marines should be played in Epic, as you say they are meant for surgical strikes, not large scale operations. To follow the fluff they should really only be used as allies for other armies.

The Dropzone models are very nice but they decided to go with 10mm for some reason. I suspect the vehicles would be fine, it would just be the infantry.
If you are thinking about doing Tau then have a word with Rick as he was pondering what to do for them as well. Or you can keep an eye on this topic on Tac Comms:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=126&t=23815

Deacon is looking at producing his own 6mm figures which just happen to fit in various games. He has a website here:

http://www.onslaughtmini.com/

Which should hopefully be open to sell things in the coming months. Lots of people are waiting with baited breath to get their hands on his models.

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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby Mattman » Monday 11th February, 2013 9:44 am

noodle wrote:well I shot myself in the foot. 6 hours and a draw... 2x0 =...

Am thinking 6000pts is a bigger, longer game than 40k anyway, while 4000 is more like a 1500 50k game


Well, getting your head round a new system (or relearning an old system) takes time. That should drop to around 4 hours after a few games.
And it isn't just about how long it takes to play a game, it is what the game is representing.
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby noodle » Monday 11th February, 2013 10:29 am

Its more about the length of time to play. Campaign points roughly scale around that.

Epic doesn't get its actual 40k "weight" in points, because 40k represents a bigger front action anyway, or a decisive moment in a much bigger campaign - or else by that logic I wouldn't play 40k I'd just try to play planetary invasion in Gothic... ;)

To account for "epicness" I think its reasonable to have 6000pts of epic worth 2x 1500 40k and 4000pts worth 1x 1500pts 40k... 2000 40k is worth 1x 1500pts +1 extra point. Apocalypse games - being a big investment in time and effort, are worth their "weight" in 1500pt 40k games - although are often scaled up to 10x...

Now if we played an epic epic game, that would be worth LOADS.
http://alephsector.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector blog
http://alephsectorfiction.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector fiction
http://ww2campaign.blogspot.co.uk/ <---- WW2 campaign
http://palurin.blogspot.com/ <---- Warhammer campaign
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby Mattman » Monday 11th February, 2013 12:04 pm

noodle wrote:Now if we played an epic epic game, that would be worth LOADS.


I think that has to be put in the plan for later in the year. I have already spoken about it to Dan and Ian.
Main issue is plenty of support for the good faction but not as much for the evil side. Although as always, marines, guard and titans can play either side if it is just about the numbers, and the number of players/armies will expand in time anyway.
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby Talorian » Monday 11th February, 2013 12:06 pm

noodle wrote:Now if we played an epic epic game, that would be worth LOADS.


We would also die of old age and fossilise before it finished. Though some of us are quite close to that already ;)
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby Comrade_Nikolai » Tuesday 12th February, 2013 6:00 pm

noodle wrote:Its more about the length of time to play.


I would like to take the opportunity to mention that this is user dependent. I've seen some really fast 40k games, right scrowe? :D
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby Rick » Tuesday 12th February, 2013 8:37 pm

Since my games of warhammer take longer to play they should be worth more right?
40k: Tau (gothic, AI), Tyranids (NetEpic, gothic), Dark Angels
WFB: Skaven (uncharted seas)
Also Played: Warmachine/Hordes, Infinity, Flames of War
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby noodle » Thursday 31st October, 2013 5:41 pm

Decided I should try to codify how gothic "works" in the campaign

GOTHIC MISSIONS
*As per rulebook
Fleet Battle - gains +2/-2 space superiority and clears a negative global modifier
Blockade Run** - gains +1/-1 space superiority and acts as a "raid" for 40k (modifier boost)
Suprise Attack - gains +2/-2 space superiority and clears a negative global modifier
Escalating Engagement - gains +2/-2 space superiority and clears a negative global modifier
Convoy - gains +1/-1 space superiority and acts as a "raid" for 40k (modifier boost)

**This is in a supplement somewhere (!) - its the mission where you have to leg it off the table...

*Amended/New
Planetary Invasion - gains +1/-1 space superiority and gets double win points on the ground (standard win = 4pts)
Evacuation - winner can clear 3 -ve global modifiers
Sabotage attack (minor raid) - gains +1/-1 space superiority and acts as an inverse "raid" for 40k (modifier negative to enemy)
Sabotage attack (major raid) - gains +2/-2 space superiority and acts as a double inverse "raid" for 40k (modifier negative to enemy)

Now I need to write down the amended/new missions!
http://alephsector.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector blog
http://alephsectorfiction.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector fiction
http://ww2campaign.blogspot.co.uk/ <---- WW2 campaign
http://palurin.blogspot.com/ <---- Warhammer campaign
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby noodle » Friday 1st November, 2013 4:53 pm

Hot on the heels of Gothic effects... a new way of using your 40k and epic battles!

DEFENSIVE BATTLESThis represents dogged last stands, stubborn resistance attritional and trench warfare. It is designed where an underdog with a poor strategic position is trying to do the best they can with limited resources to slow up an enemy advance. Note it can't "win" a war! It is mostly useful for situations where global modifiers are *truly* dire.

Defensive battles: Attacker wins. - The attacker may take his 2,3 or 4 point win on the relevant map, but *global* modifiers are not applied. Any local ones (raids, installations etc) still are. -1 global mod to defender, +1 global mod to defender.

Defensive battles: DrawNothing happens. No modifiers change...

Defensive battles: Defender wins.Defender may remove up to 2 negative modifiers. -1 global mod to attacker. If the defender scored a 3 or 4 pt win, they may inflict a local -1 or -2 mod to the opposition for 1 or 2 games respectively. The defender may not build forts or take territory. The front line stays put.
http://alephsector.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector blog
http://alephsectorfiction.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector fiction
http://ww2campaign.blogspot.co.uk/ <---- WW2 campaign
http://palurin.blogspot.com/ <---- Warhammer campaign
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby noodle » Monday 27th January, 2014 5:26 pm

Changes to Campaign rules following Escalation & Stronghold

STRONGHOLD
- If you take a fortification or fortification >10% of your list, then you are playing a "defensive battle" If you win the battle and are currently losing the campaign (negative modifiers) then you may not take territory. Instead you may either build a fortification equal to the points of the win, or clear 2 global modifiers instead of one. If you lose the game then your opponent takes territory, but may not use the modifiers (they just get the base points).

If you win the battle and are currently winning the campaign (positive modifiers) then you may only take territory equal to your base points (not use modifiers) or build a fortification equal to the points of the win, and inflict 2 negative global modifiers instead of one (war of attrition). If you lose the game then your opponent takes territory as normal (base points) and may clear two global modifiers.

ESCALATION
"Putting extra resource into the battle to ensure victory puts strain on the war effort" - Talorian
If you have an escalation detatchment and your opponent does not, if you win, you gain an extra +1 point (before mods) *if* your escalation detachment survives the game. If you lose, your opponent gets points as usual +1. If you lose AND you lose your escalation detatchment, your opponent's win points are DOUBLED (before mods - so a 2pt win at 2000pts (increases to 3) would become 6pts of win + mods).

If you both have escalation detachments, then the winner will gain +1 point as above for winning without losing the escalation detachment. They will gain double points if they destroy the opposing escalation detachment and win.

NOTE - if you are fielding an escalation detachment you may not play a defensive battle (even if you also have defences).
http://alephsector.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector blog
http://alephsectorfiction.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector fiction
http://ww2campaign.blogspot.co.uk/ <---- WW2 campaign
http://palurin.blogspot.com/ <---- Warhammer campaign
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby noodle » Monday 26th May, 2014 8:30 pm

Changes/additions to Campaign rules followng the release of 7th addition

Guidelines on the use of Unbound armies
Unbound armies should be fielded in the spirit of the campaign as something "themic" to try out. This could be an unusual faction within the campaign structure (an inquisitor's motly band, an elite formation of Guard, an alliance which is long standing or short-lived). Unbound armies should not be abusive. 7th edition has given a great deal of flexibility which is great for the campaign - but its also a loaded gun. Players should choose not to shoot it...

Unbound lists should be declared as "unbound" before agreeing to play. As a guide I suggest if an unbound player wants to play a game and his opponent has a battle forged list, the unbound player must describe how many of each type of unit he has in his army and allow the battle forged player to modify his list (or decline the game!). If both players are playing unbound (or battle forged for that matter) then neither need to disclose their units prior to the game. If lords of war are being used these must be declared in any case (no stealth warhounds).

As a guideline "one off" unbound games specifically around a campaign objective are encouraged, and continued use of an unbound list should reflect an ongoing formation/alliance or task force.

As a guide continuing (one off trials can be!) unbound lists should not be "red-black" in terms of power level. If an army is deemed "powerful red or black" by consensus, the GM (me) reserves the right to ban an army from the campaign. Now this means that this army's wins wil not "count". However any defeats... will.

Points gained for playing unbound
Players winning with an unbound list get +1 points in the campaign (over the normal points). If an unbound list loses to a battleforged list - this is a serious problem for that faction. Either an important alliance has been defeated, an elite force laid low or other such catastrophe. The rules are the same as for escalation and the winning battle forged list has its win points doubled.

Guidelines on Malefic Daemonology
Malefic daemonology should be limited to chaos factions. Any non-chaos factions summoning daemons must have a background/reason to do it. Examples may include "desparate measures" in one off games/situations. However repeated use of daemonology by non-chaos factions will come to the attention of the rest of the faction. Interesting plays could include - after winning, the daemon summoning player must kill all remaining daemons or be found out... Other campaign ideas can be considered, so a force trying to hide its "ends justify the means" approach in using malefic daemonology could be interesting and fun... However blatant abuse of daemonology for competetive advantage (creating a red-black list) will be banned from the campaign as mentioned before.

Guidelines on FLUFF
Any army blatantly abusing fluff for competetive advantage - with no attempt at a background or explanation in keeping with GW background (as judged by me!) will be banned from the campaign. This army's wins wil not "count". However any defeats... will.

The campaign meta
Its perfectly fine and fun to "meta" in a campaign setting. E.g. I arrange a game with Sam who plays tau. We agree 2000pts, and then write our lists. Then we both go away and try to "outwit" our opponent. Lets say I pick an unbound armoured list and sam goes for battle forged. I state I am taking 8 Leman Russ and a Warhound as Sam has decided to go "battle forged". If he had decided to go unbound, I would have stated "I have a warhound". Sam now picks his tau list...

It is usually "not ok" to meta against someone who has a limited range of models or who has no access to certain things (like flyers). So judgement over what is a fair meta should be used (really I shouldn't have to even be stating what counts as "fun meta" and what is douchery... but its here for completeness).

In general the campaign is there to add a fun element to games, and to challenge people to add to the story. GW have given us far more tools in 7th Ed to come up with interesting scenarios and encounters. Try not to kill each other with them.
http://alephsector.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector blog
http://alephsectorfiction.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector fiction
http://ww2campaign.blogspot.co.uk/ <---- WW2 campaign
http://palurin.blogspot.com/ <---- Warhammer campaign
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby noodle » Tuesday 30th September, 2014 10:00 pm

I'll be doing a campaign overview on Saturday.
http://alephsector.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector blog
http://alephsectorfiction.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector fiction
http://ww2campaign.blogspot.co.uk/ <---- WW2 campaign
http://palurin.blogspot.com/ <---- Warhammer campaign
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Re: Aleph Sector Campaign system

Postby noodle » Friday 13th March, 2015 3:33 pm

Blog is up to date, hope to see people tomorrow to further the campaign!
http://alephsector.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector blog
http://alephsectorfiction.blogspot.com/ <---- Aleph sector fiction
http://ww2campaign.blogspot.co.uk/ <---- WW2 campaign
http://palurin.blogspot.com/ <---- Warhammer campaign
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